Manufacturing HR bosses slam skills agencies for failing to deliver the goods
Dan Thomas 21 July 2006 09:01
Skills agencies branded a 'waste of time' by HR chiefs.
Manufacturing industry HR chiefs have rounded on the government agencies set up to solve the sector's skills problems, condemning them as "a waste of time" and "of no use".
At a manufacturing skills summit in Oxford on Wednesday, a panel of senior HR directors from motor parts company Unipart, industrial equipment firm JCB, consumer goods multi-national Nestle and glass industry giant St Gobain turned on bodies such as the Learning and Skills Council and other industry-specific sector skills councils.
The HR directors variously described the agencies as "bureaucratic", "over-complicated", "a waste of time" and having "nothing to offer".
"We've tried grant-funded skills and found them singularly unsuccessful; a waste of time," said one HR boss.
Another HR chief said: "By the time you've got to know about them it's a year, then you start to engage with them, then everything changes; they are over-complicated and not well publicised."
Asked to indicate whether or not they had engaged with any of the agencies, less than 12 of the 100 delegates answered 'yes'. All 12 said the liaison had not been successful.
Glen White, chief executive of the Manufacturing Alliance, which hosted the debate, said: "Some of the agencies are quite new, so I wasn't too surprised at the lack of visibility. But I was taken aback by the ferocity of the response."
COMMENTS
Employer-led body promotes skills training
I read with concern the article Manufacturing HR bosses slam skills agencies for failing to deliver the goods (Personnel Today, 21 July 2006) and would like to take issue with a number of comments condemning skills agencies for failing to solve the sectors skills problems and criticising grant-funded skills programmes, such as Apprenticeships. I suspect these are views that are reflected across other sectors.
Apprenticeships are at record levels right now with over 270,000 young people working in 130,000 organisations, large and small, and the numbers continue to rise. This is because significant progress has been made to improve the Apprenticeship frameworks including making them more sector specific, fit for purpose and reducing the bureaucracy surrounding their delivery. But I do agree that they can be improved further to increase their effectiveness. We have been working over the last three years with senior business leaders, the LSC and Sector Skills Councils to effect change in the quality and delivery of Apprenticeships.
The Apprenticeships Task Force (under the chairmanship of Sir Roy Gardner) was established in 2003 to increase the number of employers offering apprenticeship places and make recommendations on how apprenticeships should respond to the changing needs of employers. It had significant input into the implementation of these changes.
One of our key activities was to undertake research to quantify the business case for AAprenticeships. Some of the Task Force members including BT, BAE Systems plc, Compass Group plc and British Gas participated in the research. The findings provided clear evidence that Apprenticeships can and do work and that they bring benefits to the organisation in terms of productivity, profitability, competitiveness, reduced costs and staff retention.
For example BAE Systems plc found that apprentices provide a higher net return on investment (25% - savings of £13,000 per employee) than externally recruited trainees. Apprentices’ productivity is 25% higher compared to external recruits. The quality of apprentices’ work is significantly higher with evidence showing that they complete tasks correctly at a rate of 85% right first time, compared with 60% for external recruits. BAE Systems reported that 87% of apprentices who start their working life with the company remain with it.
This and the data from the other participating organisations are sound evidence that Apprenticeships do work and they can be even more successful if we all work together, employers, LSC and SSCs, to make sure that the frameworks reflect employers’ needs and can be adapted easily to meet changing and emerging requirements.
The Apprenticeships Ambassadors Network (once again led by Sir Roy Gardner), which was established earlier this year, is continuing the work of the Task Force. It is an employer-led group comprising senior business leaders from both large and small businesses across many sectors, including manufacturing. Our membership includes BAE Systems plc, Centrica plc, Tesco plc, Compass Group plc, Carillion plc, Kesslers International Ltd, Nissan Europe, Bentley Motors and NG Bailey, all of whom have highly successfully Apprenticeship programmes in place.
We have a key role in providing feedback on issues and barriers that prevent or discourage employers from engaging with employers. One of our concerns in the article was that less than 12 out of 100 delegates had tried to engage with agencies and all of them reported the liaison unsuccessful.
I would like the opportunity to explore with them what went wrong and make recommendations to change it. I would also like to investigate why the other 88 had not looked at Apprenticeships as a practical business solution to their recruitment and skills needs.
There have been national broadcast campaigns to promote Apprenticeships both to employers and young people. These campaigns have resulted in a significant increase in demand from young people but there has not been a corresponding response from employers. Employers are therefore losing out on the this potential talent pool, where they can effectively ‘grow their own’, and this in itself will add to their future skills issues.
Over 130,000 businesses can’t be wrong – they know the value that apprentices add to an organisation and our job is to convince even more. We still have much work to do. I have set up working groups in the Network to look at the barriers employers face in the different sectors. I would welcome any views and comments (AAN@centrica.co.uk) on how we can continue to increase these numbers so that we really will have a highly skilled workforce in this country that matches the best of those in the world.
Kind regards,
Rod Kenyon OBE
Apprenticeship Ambassadors Network
Director of British Gas Engineering Academy
Rod Kenyon
I read with concern the article Manufacturing HR bosses slam skills agencies for failing to deliver the goods (Personnel Today, 21 July 2006) and would like to take issue with a number of comments condemning skills agencies for failing to solve the sectors skills problems and criticising grant-funded skills programmes, such as Apprenticeships. I suspect these are views that are reflected across other sectors.
Apprenticeships are at record levels right now with over 270,000 young people working in 130,000 organisations, large and small, and the numbers continue to rise. This is because significant progress has been made to improve the Apprenticeship frameworks including making them more sector specific, fit for purpose and reducing the bureaucracy surrounding their delivery. But I do agree that they can be improved further to increase their effectiveness. We have been working over the last three years with senior business leaders, the LSC and Sector Skills Councils to effect change in the quality and delivery of Apprenticeships.
The Apprenticeships Task Force (under the chairmanship of Sir Roy Gardner) was established in 2003 to increase the number of employers offering apprenticeship places and make recommendations on how apprenticeships should respond to the changing needs of employers. It had significant input into the implementation of these changes.
One of our key activities was to undertake research to quantify the business case for AAprenticeships. Some of the Task Force members including BT, BAE Systems plc, Compass Group plc and British Gas participated in the research. The findings provided clear evidence that Apprenticeships can and do work and that they bring benefits to the organisation in terms of productivity, profitability, competitiveness, reduced costs and staff retention.
For example BAE Systems plc found that apprentices provide a higher net return on investment (25% - savings of £13,000 per employee) than externally recruited trainees. Apprentices’ productivity is 25% higher compared to external recruits. The quality of apprentices’ work is significantly higher with evidence showing that they complete tasks correctly at a rate of 85% right first time, compared with 60% for external recruits. BAE Systems reported that 87% of apprentices who start their working life with the company remain with it.
This and the data from the other participating organisations are sound evidence that Apprenticeships do work and they can be even more successful if we all work together, employers, LSC and SSCs, to make sure that the frameworks reflect employers’ needs and can be adapted easily to meet changing and emerging requirements.
The Apprenticeships Ambassadors Network (once again led by Sir Roy Gardner), which was established earlier this year, is continuing the work of the Task Force. It is an employer-led group comprising senior business leaders from both large and small businesses across many sectors, including manufacturing. Our membership includes BAE Systems plc, Centrica plc, Tesco plc, Compass Group plc, Carillion plc, Kesslers International Ltd, Nissan Europe, Bentley Motors and NG Bailey, all of whom have highly successfully Apprenticeship programmes in place.
We have a key role in providing feedback on issues and barriers that prevent or discourage employers from engaging with employers. One of our concerns in the article was that less than 12 out of 100 delegates had tried to engage with agencies and all of them reported the liaison unsuccessful.
I would like the opportunity to explore with them what went wrong and make recommendations to change it. I would also like to investigate why the other 88 had not looked at Apprenticeships as a practical business solution to their recruitment and skills needs.
There have been national broadcast campaigns to promote Apprenticeships both to employers and young people. These campaigns have resulted in a significant increase in demand from young people but there has not been a corresponding response from employers. Employers are therefore losing out on the this potential talent pool, where they can effectively ‘grow their own’, and this in itself will add to their future skills issues.
Over 130,000 businesses can’t be wrong – they know the value that apprentices add to an organisation and our job is to convince even more. We still have much work to do. I have set up working groups in the Network to look at the barriers employers face in the different sectors. I would welcome any views and comments (AAN@centrica.co.uk) on how we can continue to increase these numbers so that we really will have a highly skilled workforce in this country that matches the best of those in the world.
Kind regards,
Rod Kenyon OBE
Apprenticeship Ambassadors Network
Director of British Gas Engineering Academy
Rod Kenyon
23 Aug 2006
Skills Agencies
Pre 1970 industry managed its own training. When high unemployment hit in the 80s many companies closed training departments as a cost cutting measure as they reduced numbers. This seemed sensible in the short-term.
However, when things started to improve the complaint about a lack of skilled staff went up from these same employers who then pointed the finger at the government. The government then had to take on training and development itself until the private sector reestablished its training structure. Many industries never did.
Every government department or agency has to justify its existence by producing evidence of outcomes based on jobs, qualifications, etc. Collecting these statistics and trying to enforce qualitry upon an often uninterested industry costs money. For every pound they get to spend 50% seems to go on marketing the availability and then justifying the spend. If they couldn't produce those stats employers would complain the money was being wasted but they complain when asked to answer questions or fill in forms to help provide the evidence.
Employers should expect to justify the money being spent on them but many would rather just have the cash with no strings. Whinge and moan is then the constant outcome.
All organisations should be collecting evidence of the benefits of training and development as part of good business practice and, if they did, transferring that onto agency questionnaires might be easier.
Derek Ashgrove
Pre 1970 industry managed its own training. When high unemployment hit in the 80s many companies closed training departments as a cost cutting measure as they reduced numbers. This seemed sensible in the short-term.
However, when things started to improve the complaint about a lack of skilled staff went up from these same employers who then pointed the finger at the government. The government then had to take on training and development itself until the private sector reestablished its training structure. Many industries never did.
Every government department or agency has to justify its existence by producing evidence of outcomes based on jobs, qualifications, etc. Collecting these statistics and trying to enforce qualitry upon an often uninterested industry costs money. For every pound they get to spend 50% seems to go on marketing the availability and then justifying the spend. If they couldn't produce those stats employers would complain the money was being wasted but they complain when asked to answer questions or fill in forms to help provide the evidence.
Employers should expect to justify the money being spent on them but many would rather just have the cash with no strings. Whinge and moan is then the constant outcome.
All organisations should be collecting evidence of the benefits of training and development as part of good business practice and, if they did, transferring that onto agency questionnaires might be easier.
Derek Ashgrove
21 Jul 2006
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