Now this is a situation where I don’t know if I should get involved or just let is run it ‘s course.
Two married staff members have been getting very friendly with each other. And when I say friendly I mean friendly. As they are both married to spouses that do not work for the company there close friendship has become a bit of a concern for other employees who are either friends with the two staff members or their spouses.
They have recently started going to the gym together and apparently are now going on vacations together without their spouses.
With my experience in HR jobs I have learnt to get to the bottom of situations so as to discover the whole truth. The unfortunate fact is that even if I should confront them about their “office romance” which I am now sure has extended to outside the office – would it be my place to interfere in this, as most of the concerns raised are from staff members?
I don’t want to just go out and point fingers but they make no secret of hiding their over friendliness towards each other which is immoral to most staff members and even to me.
What to do?
Ultimately this is a very tricky situation to be in and these are my views, not necessarily the right views.
Morally, yes, you should get involved. Is it an HR concern, no, unless a) it brings the organisation into direpute, b) Performance is suffering in the two individuals mentionned, c) Performance is suffering in the wider workforce due to the two individuals.
Should HR have a moral face? Will the reputation of HR suffer over nothing being done by HR? Again, yes to both, but in reality, if it were me, people's private lives are their own, depsite it carrying on in the workplace. Too my (albeit limited) legal knowledge it is not against the law to have an affair.
In my opinion, it is not HR's role to question both incumbent's relationship. You could put it to them that there have been complaints from the team (you can choose wether this could be an official meeting with minutes and notes on personnel records). However, this could deteroriate the morale further, making the team more ineffective.
The more I think of it, the more tricky it gets. However, as stated, I would argue it is not for HR to morally just in this instance, unless there are far reaching effects upon the teams morale. I would also have a plan of action in place in case one of the friends decides to tell the "romantic" couples partner of things going on - this is where HR should come in. Any kind of violence, reprising attack or bullying; most definately should not be tolerated.
Let me know if you want to talk further on this issue.
I think you are on very shaky ground here !
What right do HR - or anyone else in the office for that matter - have to judge people on their relationships ?
This is modern Britain and relationships and marriages arent always the 1950's 'ideal' of monogomy and domestic bliss that we have been led to believe that they are. Nobody but those involved are in a position to know what is going on at home 'behind closed doors'. It doesnt matter what they do outside or work and who they do it with (this is hardly going to count as bring the company into disrepute!). It doesnt matter if other employees are friends with their spouses.
For HR to become involved would be unprofessional - unless you have a clause in your staff contracts banning relationships at work or their behaviour in the office has become 'physical' then it isnt HR's concern.
Their behaviour may appear 'immoral' to others within the office but it isnt illegal and isnt really their business. I would have thought that as they are now holidaying together their spouses must have some knowledge of the relationship and it is their choice what to do with it!!
HR should be business focussed and deal with facts and real issues - it shouldnt become involved in gossip and suposition !
All I can say is WOW and I have to agree with you on this? The more i think about it the more tricky it gets. I am having sleepless nights about this already.
Even though morally this does not sit well with me personally it don’t think it to be my place to interfere. What does concern me is the amount of gossip it has generated in the office.
I took the initiative to have a meeting with all staff members making sure that the two specific employees are present and just gave a bit of a lecture on how gossip does get around the office and that management will not tolerate it. It has died down a bit but I guess only for now. Until they do something else to get everybody talking.
I can not truly say that their work performance or any of the other staffs is suffering because of this , I just think everybody is feeling very uncomfortable just because it is what it is!
From and HR perspective I am not sure how to prepare myself or the staff for this if it should come out in the future. I don’t know who I feel more sorry for? The spouses that don’t have a clue or for the two of them for being so stupid in making it so obvious?
I'm amazed. That anyone feels the need to question whether they should sit in judgement over a non-work related matter that has no current effect on workplace or work activity.
Couldn't agree more with 'Justme'. Get with the plan, stan .... it's 2010 in a few weeks time.
Have fun and be good to each other.
I disagree I'm afraid. These individuals should be spoken to about their conduct at work. Regardless of whether people are married or single - any relationship at all that takes a persons mind from their work at hand needs to be addressed and from what you are saying they are openly showing affection and chatting in open areas. This is is obviously causing a distraction in the office environment as well as they have everyones tongues wagging so yes I believe this would ultimately be affecting productivity and should be addressed.
Just my opinion.
Suz
Suz, i have to agree to disagree on this one, but it still is not an easy situation to be in. As it is something personal between the two of them maybe I should just let it run its course?
I think the worst it is doing right now is generating stares and the odd gossip. Interfering with something on such a personal level even if i don’t agree with what is happening, I don’t think it is really anybodies place to judge or interfere.
After my little meeting with all the staff regarding unnecessary gossip it seems to have simmered down a bit. Maybe everybody is just blowing this out of proportion? Who am I to take them on about what they do in their own time or behind their spouses backs?
My main concern is what will happen if a spouse does find out? This is truly a catch 22. The outcome whichever way it goes, can not be good!!
I hear what you are saying but if you had two staff members fighting at work, disrupting productivity, would you address it or leave it because you think it's personal between the two of them.
It's not about what they are doing .... don't get caught up in that. Their conduct is not becoming and not only distracting them but also staff around them. By doing nothing you are setting a precident.
Ok...
1. Is there a tangible link between the curent episode and a drop off in productivity?
2. Are there any employee relations issues - is everyone playing nicely?
3. Morally it is what it is. It is not HR's concern, unless it effects the work of individuals.
4. With regards to the spouse's response; yes, it will be horrible if they react in a way so as to criticise. However, HR should also be objective in this situation and not subjective. You probably will not come out of this clean, however, the key is protecting the business and this does include the wider workforce.
5. Prepare for the worse, pray it doesn't happen. If it all kicks off in the office, it kicks off. Be prepared - follow the Cub Scouting Moto.
I have faced similar situation like this
I think that putting on my HR hat, you should get involved in this matter only if their conduct at work is causing others employees to feel offended or upset. For example a previous situation I had to get involved in was intially when these two employees got friendly they did not interact a lot at work to try and keep it a secret. Though I had been told about it. Later they started sitting together for lunch, going out for lunch, having long breaks and their conduct in our staff canteen/offices was inappropriate and i had to have a word with them
It all stopped. HR involvement should only be to a level of not letting other employees feel offended by their conduct etc.
I agree with some of the other posts that it is not really anyones business what people do in their private lives. The only involvement should be if it impacted work in some way but why is this HR's job? We are not the morality police. If there is an impact on the job - its the line managers responsibility!
Hrgem - not sure how it works where you work but where I work as soon as there is something "not nice"to handle the top guys call in HR. Line Managers lean on me to do their disciplining and to dish out warnings. When something nice happens of course they are well qualified to handle that.
Is there anyone else who finds this is the case where they work? I have always taken my lead from my Directors and usually I end up doing all the dirty work. I always used to handle the Christmas function which was a fun part of my job but even that has been given to the bosses PA this year.
Sorry to have to agree, this is exactly how it had tended to be at our organisation, although, I have now found by working very closely with each department head they too see the benefits in cascading the happy/ easy to do parts, as well as the not so nice to do-but necessary parts. This means the managers are actually managing the teams and HR can get back to adding value rather than simply policing people and activities. And no, I no longer organise the festive 'do'- am glad to be free of the headache to be honest, but yes, we have to remind staff about it being a work fucntion and if soemthing goees wrong it's HR that are suddenly working.
It's taken a long long time, but gradually the ethos has begun to change. I accept it's not easy though, and is often about the perception of HR's value in the organisation- that's why we do an HR induction- explaining our purpose- as much as explaining what the operational departments do too.
With regards to the office romance scenario- we have had to handle a similar situation, by drawing a very very clear line- we accept and are aware you are having a relationship of some kind, which in itself is not related to company practices- however if this should interfere with either of your duties, create unrest, reduce productivity, bring company into disrepute in any way it will be dealt with in usual performance measurement methods, and similarly if the relationship breaks up and has a negative effect (bearing in mind potential harassment situation -arrggghh!! so complex)- we will be having a very different conversation and it will be dealt with in a formal manner. Until then, which we hope it doesn't come to, it's none of the company nor anyone elses business. This was accepted by the individuals involved- they recognised we had to note it, but that it had no bearing on anything as yet, and so far, it's worked.
Might I suggest that you should be very careful in what you do and who you talk to. The most important thing in my view is to gain support from your bosses about whatever you try to do. I was fired by a CEO who took exception to me even talking to him about his "affair" with a secretary.
The Company I was then with had "rules" which he ignored............one of those CEOs who didn't want the rules to be applied to him.
Do take care, and do gain support.
Oh come on, wise up. People have been at it behind the scenes for centuries and HR has no place sticking their nose in. Half the time the only reason HR feel compelled to 'intervene' is because they are bloody nosey, lets face it, and cant wait to get the dirty details. Not that im against that you understand - bit of juicy gossip, especially about someone senior dabbling with someone less senior always makes for better conversation than the latest remcom issues doesnt it?!
Unless its enabling some form of dodgy, unfair practices or its being played out in public through arguments etc and making people uncomfortable i dont see how anyone can justify 'speaking to them about their conduct'.
Absolutely; it's the 21st century and we are all post-modern now. Too often morality is used as a cover for prurience, discrimination & double standards. I hate to think what the comments would be if it were a woman married to a man who had started an affair with a woman at work.
In my experience, it's the fall out in the office when relationships break up that causes the most headaches .........
If you like your job, steer clear from the business of employees personal lives. Even if you aren't in HR and just joining in fun office gossip. My brother got sacked from his job after sticking his nose into some office politics and the boss' affair and joined in some gossip. Obviously that wasn't the 'reason' they sacked him, but it reflected badly on his marketing career and he is currently working in retail.
I know there are moral issues but keep it professional and if you are in HR you shouldn't get involved until it directly affects work related issues and you have loads of proof.
Good luck!
Wow I did not think that this conversation would have generated so many responses. I was on leave for a few days. Believe me I needed it.
I see most of you believe that HR should not have gotten involved and it seems like Management at my company agreed with most of you.
But here is what is going down right now and unfortunately because of this I now truly believe that HR should step in as the companies name is now being dragged into this.
While I was on my much needed break and having not interfered with the situation as per managements request, accept for having to once again warn all employees against generating nasty gossip in the office, the spouse of one of the romantically involved individuals made a appearance at our offices and caused such scene it made everybody so uncomfortable.
She is now holding the company responsible for letting this carry one and is wanting to take legal action. GREAT!!!! Not sure what kind of legal action and if she can even do this but this just adds to my worries with all this right now!!!
As for the two "lovers" they dont seem to have a care in the world. Act as if it is nothing!!!!!
So can HR get involved now as it seems management is having heart "palpitations" because of the initial decision not to get involved and now wants it resolved a.s.a.p. I feel like I am going to have heart failure!!!! This has gotten out of hand totally!!!!
She can't sue the company, it isn't your job to keep her husband faithful.
But I can just imagine how she feels... I must say I have a problem with the fact that HR can't step-up and say something is inappropriate when it obviously is. In my opinion people should get sacked for this. Do whatever you like after hours, when it isn't affecting work but the moment you step into work, BE PROFESSIONAL!!!
A friend of mine left his legal assistant position after two years of becoming really cozy there. He often looked after his boss' house when he was away and went for dinner with him and his wife. At his going-away party last Friday afternoon,which was only attended by people from work things got steamy. Apparently everyone got really drunk and everyone was sad he was leaving. Some even cried and others tried to snog him. When he decided to leave the akward situation it was like a drunken mess where his boss kissed another married lady etc etc...It sounds unbelievable but I think these kind of things happen. If there was an HR manager there that day worth their salt, they would have put a stop to the chaos. Can you imagine the work environment there this week? It is revulting!!!!
Haha Sheryl that sounds quite funny and if it happened where I work most people would just laugh it off and carry on lol! But thats just where I work!
As for the affair situation - I would just pull them to oneside and ask them to keep it out of work as it is causing tension in the ranks>? Aside from that what can you do really???
How strange! I can't think that I would be normal ever again if my married boss and I snog at an afterwork party...unless I'm too drunk to remember it, then obviously it wouldn't matter. But the moment someone calls me on my "forgotten" behaviour, I will have to leave the company because I won't be able to look him or his wife in the eye...
Yeh but the way I see it is - As long as I wasn't the one doing thwe kissing or being kissed then whatever! Look after number one and all that lol!
Oh I get what you mean. But I now myself I will be weird with the people who took part in such crap. I would loose my respect for them professionaly. Anyways let's just hope nothing like that happens in our companies...:)
Yes I see where your coming nfrom there hehe!
Still as long as its not yourself involved and losing face, losing respect for soemone is not such a big deal in the work place, its not like you have to have a life long relationship is it really? You will just have to laugh to yourself every now and then hehe!
But as you say, better it does not happen in your own place of work as controlling the after affects from a HR perpective may be difficult if staff do decide to overeact!
Wow! Poor you!
I've read all the replies, and I agree that what people do in their personal lives is up to them, even if we (personally) don't agree with it. HR aren't social workers or marriage counsellors.
For what it's worth, I think you should limit your comments to their behaviour & conduct in the office. In other words, deal with this if their behaviour is becoming "business-inappropriate" (too touchy-feely, inappropriate remarks, etc), which is making their colleagues feel uncomfortable. The deciding benchmark for this needs to be "what if someone else made these remarks/behaved like this, but I had no knowledge of their private life?". If it's clear that you wouldn't accept this from anyone else, then I think you should be ok to have a quiet word with them. One other thing you might want to consider is having a word with these people's colleagues, and explaining what HR, and the business in general, can & can't do about this (i.e. can't make moral judgements in this day & age, and can only address those things that relate directly to their work). And if someone's performance in a team is not up to par, then that should be the manager's responsiblity - after all, that's what they're paid for!
As for the wife threatening legal action - that's a non-starter, in my opinion. What law is she going to base her action on? No, this is just shock & anger talking.
One last thing - don't let yourself get dragged down by all this, and make sure you have someone who you can "debrief" to as well, so that all this doesn't just sit on your shoulders alone.
I think I speak for most of us when I say - good luck with this one, and let us know how you get on!!!!
:-)
well said Athena!!!
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